ijfraser 7 Posted September 10, 2018 Report Share Posted September 10, 2018 Does the new rules on gratuities mean that they are included in the fare? Link to post Share on other sites
towny44 229 Posted September 10, 2018 Report Share Posted September 10, 2018 Yes from May next year auto grats will no longer be levied and P&O will be fully responsible for all staff wages and bonuses. No need for anyone to tip, but no one will stop you if you feel someone has given you excellent service. Link to post Share on other sites
ijfraser 7 Posted September 10, 2018 Author Report Share Posted September 10, 2018 Thank you now I know how the system now works Ian Link to post Share on other sites
HLM 519 Posted September 11, 2018 Report Share Posted September 11, 2018 12 hours ago, towny44 said: P&O will be fully responsible for all staff wages and bonuses. In theory it sounds great doesn't it? However the reality is prices will have to rise. 3000 or more passengers fleet wide potentially not paying £7 a day gratuity, I honestly can't see P&O footing that bill P&O claim fares won't rise but that can't be proved due to 'fluid pricing'. Prices will rise one way or another whether that be the fare or onboard rises such as alcohol prices etc. HLM. Link to post Share on other sites
mitch 325 Posted September 11, 2018 Report Share Posted September 11, 2018 i agree HLM but am happy to see it, whatever anyone says there were i am sure a significant number of those queing to remove the "voluntary" tips didnt tip in cash either.so at least its a level playing field now and everyone pays the same other than the vagueries of fluid pricing and single supplements but dont get me started on that one lol. some will no doubt reward those who excell and why not thats their choice. only time will tell if it results in positive change. i hope it will and that the companies that adopt this system will do the right thing by their employees. Link to post Share on other sites
Davybe 529 Posted September 11, 2018 Report Share Posted September 11, 2018 P&O have two choices as I see it. 1 Increase prices to cover tip/service charge. 2 Make it a non removable charge (some cruise lines do that) Whichever they pick at least we will all contribute ...Davybe Link to post Share on other sites
towny44 229 Posted September 11, 2018 Report Share Posted September 11, 2018 22 minutes ago, Davybe said: P&O have two choices as I see it. 1 Increase prices to cover tip/service charge. 2 Make it a non removable charge (some cruise lines do that) Whichever they pick at least we will all contribute ...Davybe I don't think it will be number 2, but as many have said fluid pricing will mask any extra increase that P&O need. However I see very little evidence of any extra increase in this years launch prices, in fact the slight increases there are will barely cover inflation and the significant reduction in Sterling since last years launch, and I agree that it now provides a much fairer level playing field for all passengers. Link to post Share on other sites
HLM 519 Posted September 11, 2018 Report Share Posted September 11, 2018 1 hour ago, mitch said: i agree HLM but am happy to see it, whatever anyone says there were i am sure a significant number of those queing to remove the "voluntary" tips didnt tip in cash either.so at least its a level playing field now and everyone pays the same other than the vagueries of fluid pricing and single supplements but dont get me started on that one lol. some will no doubt reward those who excell and why not thats their choice. only time will tell if it results in positive change. i hope it will and that the companies that adopt this system will do the right thing by their employees. However they do get their revenue back will not impact on me, as previously said a while ago I'll never sail P&O again following an unpleasant experience. That said, as someone who removes auto grats I've never bought into the idea that those who do pay them subsidise those who don't, as they are voluntary we all have an equal right to pay or withdraw, if someone chooses to pay them so be it, but to be critical of those who exercise their right to withdraw and pay how they wish is wrong and speculative. I would however be very interested to see just how much P&O increase the crews wages, but I very much doubt that'll ever be made public. HLM. Link to post Share on other sites
sinbad10 757 Posted September 11, 2018 Report Share Posted September 11, 2018 What P&O pay their staff is a private affair between them and their staff and is nothing to do with anyone else and why should you like to know as you have previously said that you will never cruise with them again so is no concern of yours. Countrygirl, Jenjen and *Dancing Queen* 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites
HLM 519 Posted September 11, 2018 Report Share Posted September 11, 2018 7 minutes ago, sinbad10 said: What P&O pay their staff is a private affair between them and their staff and is nothing to do with anyone else and why should you like to know as you have previously said that you will never cruise with them again so is no concern of yours. Is it really necessary to be so abrupt? You're obviously having a bad day I'll leave you to your own devices for today. HLM. Link to post Share on other sites
sinbad10 757 Posted September 11, 2018 Report Share Posted September 11, 2018 3 hours ago, HLM said: Is it really necessary to be so abrupt? You're obviously having a bad day I'll leave you to your own devices for today. HLM. Not being abrupt just telling the truth I am sure you dont tell everyone what wages you earn so why should you know what P&O staff earn. Countrygirl and Davybe 2 Link to post Share on other sites
HLM 519 Posted September 11, 2018 Report Share Posted September 11, 2018 2 hours ago, sinbad10 said: Not being abrupt just telling the truth I am sure you dont tell everyone what wages you earn so why should you know what P&O staff earn. Well as far as I'm aware this is an open forum which allows me to express my opinion, especially when you bear in mind that I have previously spent thousands of pounds with P&O, therefore I feel that I have the right and experience to know that if it becomes public how P&O will cover the loss of gratuities, if you don't agree that's up to you. Just to add my wages are public knowledge because I work for the Local Authority, it's no skin off my nose. Strange that on another forum certain people have differing opinions (if you know what I mean)!!!!!!!! HLM. Link to post Share on other sites
Captain Kidd II 798 Posted September 11, 2018 Report Share Posted September 11, 2018 Well - the removal of autogratuities should stop that uncomfortable feeling we had when leaving the tip on and seeing pax still giving envelopes to Waiters, etc. On our last few trips we partially removed autograts leaving just a small amount for the crew we did not see but then paid our Cabin Steward and Waiters the equivalent of £10 per hour which to me is a wage rather than a tip. I must say the service provided was excellent. I am sure cruise prices will increase particularly the nearer you get to the cruise date under the concept of fluid pricing but will also take into account the bonus that will need to be given to staff in lieu of tips. If you want the best deal it will be best to book on the launch date which is unfair to many who are not in the position that they can do that due to work pressures. one good thing about this is it will cut out the debate on here! Davybe 1 Link to post Share on other sites
sinbad10 757 Posted September 11, 2018 Report Share Posted September 11, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, HLM said: Well as far as I'm aware this is an open forum which allows me to express my opinion, especially when you bear in mind that I have previously spent thousands of pounds with P&O, therefore I feel that I have the right and experience to know that if it becomes public how P&O will cover the loss of gratuities, if you don't agree that's up to you. Just to add my wages are public knowledge because I work for the Local Authority, it's no skin off my nose. Strange that on another forum certain people have differing opinions (if you know what I mean)!!!!!!!! HLM. What you have spent on P&O gives you no right whatsoever as you put it to know how P&O cover gratuities and will have no effect on you because like you said you will not be cruising with them again. I am sure I like many on here will agree that you do not have that right or on how much P&O staff earn. Edited September 11, 2018 by sinbad10 towny44 1 Link to post Share on other sites
towny44 229 Posted September 11, 2018 Report Share Posted September 11, 2018 3 hours ago, Captain Kidd II said: One good thing about this is it will cut out the debate on here! That doesn't seem to be working as yet.😉 Davybe and 2torts 2 Link to post Share on other sites
smtcan 274 Posted September 11, 2018 Report Share Posted September 11, 2018 2 hours ago, sinbad10 said: What you have spent on P&O gives you no right whatsoever as you put it to know how P&O cover gratuities and will have no effect on you because like you said you will not be cruising with them again. I am sure I like many on here will agree that you do not have that right or on how much P&O staff earn. I agree that we have no right to know how, or how much staff are paid. However, if P&O staff are not paid an equivalent amount to staff working for other lines they may find it hard to get good workers. I have no doubt that wages are discussed when the staff are at home between contracts. I have heard staff mention their relatives who work for other cruise lines. Davybe 1 Link to post Share on other sites
HLM 519 Posted September 12, 2018 Report Share Posted September 12, 2018 (edited) 10 hours ago, sinbad10 said: What you have spent on P&O gives you no right whatsoever as you put it to know how P&O cover gratuities and will have no effect on you because like you said you will not be cruising with them again. I am sure I like many on here will agree that you do not have that right or on how much P&O staff earn. Like I said earlier, if you don't agree then not my problem. I find it quite humorous though that some on here have always wanted to know how gratuities are distributed, yet now all of a sudden it none of our business what the crew earn. Didn't see you telling anyone it was none of their business then. HLM. Edited September 12, 2018 by HLM Link to post Share on other sites
HLM 519 Posted September 12, 2018 Report Share Posted September 12, 2018 7 hours ago, smtcan said: I agree that we have no right to know how, or how much staff are paid. However, if P&O staff are not paid an equivalent amount to staff working for other lines they may find it hard to get good workers. I have no doubt that wages are discussed when the staff are at home between contracts. I have heard staff mention their relatives who work for other cruise lines. But before P&O made this announcement most people were claiming that the crew were poorly paid, if it was none of our business how did they know? Like I said above, for years most people on here and other forums have questioned how the gratuity was distributed and what proportion goes to the crew, yet now for some reason it's none of our business, what's changed. HLM. Link to post Share on other sites
Pesky Pirate 171 Posted September 12, 2018 Report Share Posted September 12, 2018 And still it goes on. Gratuities are going to be included so there is no need to pay anything if a person doesn’t want to or think there is any need. It doesn’t matter how much staff earn as no doubt the cruise line has found a way to make sure that they are happy and no doubt in one way or another it will be the passengers who bear the brunt of it, whether by increased fares or fluid prices. Costs of cruises have already increased and until this comes in we won’t know the outcomes. Davybe and sinbad10 2 Link to post Share on other sites
sinbad10 757 Posted September 12, 2018 Report Share Posted September 12, 2018 13 hours ago, smtcan said: I agree that we have no right to know how, or how much staff are paid. However, if P&O staff are not paid an equivalent amount to staff working for other lines they may find it hard to get good workers. I have no doubt that wages are discussed when the staff are at home between contracts. I have heard staff mention their relatives who work for other cruise lines. Very true but if P&O dont pay their staff a high enough wage in comparison to other cruise lines so they are leaving that is a company problem to be sorted out by P&O and not involve cruisers. Link to post Share on other sites
smtcan 274 Posted September 12, 2018 Report Share Posted September 12, 2018 1 hour ago, sinbad10 said: Very true but if P&O dont pay their staff a high enough wage in comparison to other cruise lines so they are leaving that is a company problem to be sorted out by P&O and not involve cruisers. Of course the problem lies entirely with P&O and they will have to deal with it. sinbad10 1 Link to post Share on other sites
HLM 519 Posted September 12, 2018 Report Share Posted September 12, 2018 Obviously the question I asked is to difficult to answer. HLM. Link to post Share on other sites
towny44 229 Posted September 12, 2018 Report Share Posted September 12, 2018 14 hours ago, HLM said: But before P&O made this announcement most people were claiming that the crew were poorly paid, if it was none of our business how did they know? Like I said above, for years most people on here and other forums have questioned how the gratuity was distributed and what proportion goes to the crew, yet now for some reason it's none of our business, what's changed. HLM. IMO what's changed is that the auto grats were supposedly a direct payment from passengers to staff, but paid via P&O, so I imagine that's why some people were concerned to know if it all went to the staff and that some was not siphoned off into Carnival profits. Now that P&O have accepted full responsibility for staff wages and bonus payments, how they handle this, and which revenue stream provides the funds, is immaterial. Of course it will still have to come from cruise fares and sundries paid for by the same passengers, however just how the fares are set should not be our concern. Link to post Share on other sites
HLM 519 Posted September 13, 2018 Report Share Posted September 13, 2018 8 hours ago, towny44 said: IMO what's changed is that the auto grats were supposedly a direct payment from passengers to staff, but paid via P&O, so I imagine that's why some people were concerned to know if it all went to the staff and that some was not siphoned off into Carnival profits. Now that P&O have accepted full responsibility for staff wages and bonus payments, how they handle this, and which revenue stream provides the funds, is immaterial. Of course it will still have to come from cruise fares and sundries paid for by the same passengers, however just how the fares are set should not be our concern. But P&O will now "supposedly" pay the crew a fairer wage in the same way they supposedly shared all the gratuities, but we all know how secretive they were about that. For that reason I think the paying public have the right to know that the crew who serve them will at least earn a decent living wage. HLM. Link to post Share on other sites
HLM 519 Posted September 13, 2018 Report Share Posted September 13, 2018 19 hours ago, sinbad10 said: Very true but if P&O dont pay their staff a high enough wage in comparison to other cruise lines so they are leaving that is a company problem to be sorted out by P&O and not involve cruisers. But it is the customers who have brought about this change, according to P&O they've listened to them and as a result the gratuity system has been scrapped, so it does involve cruisers. Or is it now a case of we've got what we want, so now couldn't care less? HLM. Link to post Share on other sites
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