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2 hours ago, HLM said:

I'd love to see the evidence of this Tally, my daughter and SIL has now taken the 3 kids to Lanzarote for two weeks AI for £2,500, a cruise for the same two weeks £4,500 without drinks, so find it hard to accept what you're saying.

Very rarely have I seen a cruise cheaper that a land based holiday and when I have it very last minute, which a majority of people can't do.

HLM.

I'll admit £2,500 is VERY cheap.  I suppose I was comparing like with like. Although P&O aren't 5* I really can't see a holiday for 5 at that price comparing to a cruise with P&O drinks or no drinks.

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In the old days before auto gratuities P&O used to place a card in your cabin stating the suggested amounts of £xx and £xx for cabin and dining stewards so it was presumed whatever you gave in the

Quite honestly I have no idea why people get so bent out of shape as to where the gratuities go. They are expected so we pay them. If I feel people deserve extra and we often do  we give them extra. I

I have a longer memory than that Captaintel, gratuities in those day's were between me and the individual crew members, no controversy, no questions asked, how it should be. Prices in those were

I tend to agree with Tally but as I previously said this subject will just keep going around and around, there will be those who don’t intend paying any gratuities and as has been said here and on other forums ‘why should they pay the crew wages’ then there are those who say they prefer to give to those who have served them .. why ?? at the end of the day all the tips are pooled so I personally do not see the point of removing the auto gratuities just so I can hand an envelope over tbh I always thought it quite demeaning for the crew to be hanging around wondering will they/won’t they ( that is just my personal opinion though ) so auto grats were introduced which makes it easier for everyone and yes we all know it is a service charge and not a tip as many keep telling us but this is how the cruise companies operate and why some of them do not allow you to remove them, it also enables them to keep cruise prices lower, the way I see it be it right or wrong it is those of us who do pay them who are subsidizing those who don’t, they get the same level of service and no doubt there will be a few comments of ‘well more fool you’ ... perhaps !! but one way or another we the passenger will bear that cost and the only way for it to be fair is to include it in the price, they could of course cut down on crew and the cruise line top up the wage bill then we will see standards fall even more and maybe while they are it they will consider discontinuing OBC, free travel, free parking, oh and the 10% off on board spend, it strikes me many are willing to take but not give.
 
I don’t know about anyone else but I would much rather have a few hundred pounds obc and pay £84 in tips ( P&O tips quoted for 14 days ) so to all those who don’t have a conscience .. carry on because there will only be one winner and it sure won’t be you but in the process you will probably spoil what we have all come to expect, yes expect just like the cruise lines expect us to pay the tips .. is there any difference !!
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2 hours ago, *Dancing Queen* said:
I tend to agree with Tally but as I previously said this subject will just keep going around and around, there will be those who don’t intend paying any gratuities and as has been said here and on other forums ‘why should they pay the crew wages’ then there are those who say they prefer to give to those who have served them .. why ?? at the end of the day all the tips are pooled so I personally do not see the point of removing the auto gratuities just so I can hand an envelope over tbh I always thought it quite demeaning for the crew to be hanging around wondering will they/won’t they ( that is just my personal opinion though ) so auto grats were introduced which makes it easier for everyone and yes we all know it is a service charge and not a tip as many keep telling us but this is how the cruise companies operate and why some of them do not allow you to remove them, it also enables them to keep cruise prices lower, the way I see it be it right or wrong it is those of us who do pay them who are subsidizing those who don’t, they get the same level of service and no doubt there will be a few comments of ‘well more fool you’ ... perhaps !! but one way or another we the passenger will bear that cost and the only way for it to be fair is to include it in the price, they could of course cut down on crew and the cruise line top up the wage bill then we will see standards fall even more and maybe while they are it they will consider discontinuing OBC, free travel, free parking, oh and the 10% off on board spend, it strikes me many are willing to take but not give.
 
I don’t know about anyone else but I would much rather have a few hundred pounds obc and pay £84 in tips ( P&O tips quoted for 14 days ) so to all those who don’t have a conscience .. carry on because there will only be one winner and it sure won’t be you but in the process you will probably spoil what we have all come to expect, yes expect just like the cruise lines expect us to pay the tips .. is there any difference !!

What a strange comment to make.

firstly you cannot assume those who remove autogratuities do so to get out of giving a tip. Having kept autogratuities on I used to feel uncomfortable when people around me handed an envelope over to waiters who had usualy inproved their service right at the end of the cruise just to get there tip.

in the case of P&O, they have cut back on their crew which has resulted in a drop in standards. In your own words the benefit is either a reduced wages bill or more money to pay their crew which, as the standards have gone down, has made no improvement to service.

we never receive obs equivalent to the tip yet alone exceed it. Staff need to remember that to be given recognition for good service they have to provide it.  

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I don't think there is anything strange in what I've said Captain Kidd and I haven't assumed those who remove gratuities do so to avoid paying them what I said was there are those who have no intention of paying and I stick by that statement I then said  there are those who remove the tips as they prefer to give directly to those who have served them and asked 'why' when the tips are pooled anyway as I can't see the advantage in doing so ... you have given an explanation why you do it and maybe others do it for the same reason tbh even when we did hand envelopes over it was always done discreetly so if others thought we didn't give anything that was their problem not mine, are you saying you have to be seen to be doing something because of what others might think ?? of course everyone is entitled to make their own choice but quite honestly I think I must be made of sterner stuff than you because I couldn't give a 'monkeys' if someone is judging me for not waving an envelope about.

I'm quite aware P&O have cut back on crew and standards have dropped which is the main reason I stopped travelling with them six years ago .. it isn't the crews fault standards have dropped they can only do so much work in a day and the more work put on them is going to result in corners being cut which results in unhappy passengers who don't feel they are getting good service, I'm probably not explaining this very well but at the end of the day Carnival will not let their 'bottom line' be affected so the way I see it we have two choices .. pay the tips and keep the current level of service ( I doubt it will improve ) or don't pay and the cruise price will increase or standards will drop even further, not our problem ?? well no it probably isn't but it is us the passenger who it will impact on.

Finally .. you have never had obs which exceeded your gratuity amount ?? you need to check out different agents I have had some obscene amounts :) 

 

Edited by *Dancing Queen*
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50 minutes ago, *Dancing Queen* said:

I don't think there is anything strange in what I've said Captain Kidd and I haven't assumed those who remove gratuities do so to avoid paying them what I said was there are those who have no intention of paying and I stick by that statement I then said  there are those who remove the tips as they prefer to give directly to those who have served them and asked 'why' when the tips are pooled anyway as I can't see the advantage in doing so ... you have given an explanation why you do it and maybe others do it for the same reason tbh even when we did hand envelopes over it was always done discreetly so if others thought we didn't give anything that was their problem not mine, are you saying you have to be seen to be doing something because of what others might think ?? of course everyone is entitled to make their own choice but quite honestly I think I must be made of sterner stuff than you because I couldn't give a 'monkeys' if someone is judging me for not waving an envelope about.

I'm quite aware P&O have cut back on crew and standards have dropped which is the main reason I stopped travelling with them six years ago .. it isn't the crews fault standards have dropped they can only do so much work in a day and the more work put on them is going to result in corners being cut which results in unhappy passengers who don't feel they are getting good service, I'm probably not explaining this very well but at the end of the day Carnival will not let their 'bottom line' be affected so the way I see it we have two choices .. pay the tips and keep the current level of service ( I doubt it will improve ) or don't pay and the cruise price will increase or standards will drop even further, not our problem ?? well no it probably isn't but it is us the passenger who it will impact on.

Finally .. you have never had obs which exceeded your gratuity amount ?? you need to check out different agents I have had some obscene amounts :) 

 

Thanks for your comments.

As I never wave my envelope around I do not make my tip obvious. 

As there are so many supporters of P&O they will always have sufficient passengers to keep the botton line up for which, as a Carnival Shareholder, I am thankful.

If my TA is not working properly for me then please give me some ideas of who to use. I can say I use Bolsover which is why I am on this forum.

As this discussion has mainly been about P&O autogratuities I am suprised you even bother to comment if you have not used them for 6 years because, as people say, times change - during the last 6 years P&O have changed so much any comments relating to before that time are irrelevant.

With that I end!

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I'm sure you don't Captain Kidd :)  

I have used Bolsover CC in the past and have always been happy with 'the deal' I got however I have no loyalty to any particular agent, I get quotes from 3 or 4 agents and then decide who is offering the best deal, it would be unfair of me to name a competitor on this site.

Why shouldn't I comment about P&O ?? I choose not to cruise with them but that doesn't mean I won't in the future if they 'up their game' I also have a lot of friends who cruise with them so I am hardly out of the frame, they might not have met my expectations on my last couple of cruises but I would never knock them because we have had some wonderful cruises with them, is my commenting any different to someone joining in who hasn't actually been on a cruise yet ?? I don't consider my comments are irrelevant because the changes to P&O started when Carnival took them over far longer than 6 years ago.

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11 hours ago, Tally said:

I think it's been said many times on this and other forums and even on P&O's Facebook page, so I'm not getting into all that. Anyhow I'm sure however than anyone not paying tips really has no sense of shame. Quite honestly I don't know why I joined in yet another tipping thread. There really is no point. I'll continue to do what I think is right the right thing and other people will do what they want. 

You shouldn't really make sweeping statements like that if you're not prepared to give a reasonable explanation as to why, if you've answered the question before please feel free enlighten the forum again.

HLM.

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26 minutes ago, HLM said:

You shouldn't really make sweeping statements like that if you're not prepared to give a reasonable explanation as to why, if you've answered the question before please feel free enlighten the forum again.

HLM.

 

I’m not quite sure what you mean by a sweeping statement. Do you really want me to repeat the things I’ve previously said on here? Well, since you’ve asked what about ’stiffing the staff’ not my words but they have been used by others and I agree. That’s what people do when they don’t pay the tips. I really don’t want to hear the argument that we are paying their wages instead of P&O because I don’t care. It’s what the staff expect and generally it’s what they deserve. There is of course the fact that people who don’t pay tips are being subsidised by those who do. Please don’t argue that isn’t the case because of course they are. If I’m in a cabin the same grade as someone else and I pay the tips and they don’t, my cruise is therefore more expensive than theirs. For just those two reasons people who don’t pay tips should be ashamed. However as I’ve already said I doubt they have any shame. Now I really am finished with these gratuity threads. I think we all know where we stand and as I’ve already said I’ll carry on doing what I consider to be the right thing and others no doubt will do what they want.

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Hardly a sweeping statement HLM and if you are going to quote someone it might be a good idea to quote what they are replying to rather than just the 'bit' you want to be seen.

Why should Tally need to give an explanation when it is perfectly obvious she is referring to what has been said on other forums and FB and I might add has been said on this forum too or do you not read other forums.

Time you wound your neck in I think !!! 

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8 hours ago, *Dancing Queen* said:

Hardly a sweeping statement HLM and if you are going to quote someone it might be a good idea to quote what they are replying to rather than just the 'bit' you want to be seen.

Why should Tally need to give an explanation when it is perfectly obvious she is referring to what has been said on other forums and FB and I might add has been said on this forum too or do you not read other forums.

Time you wound your neck in I think !!! 

In my opinion telling people they should be "ashamed of themselves" is sweeping enough, especially when given the opportunity to explain why.

Oh and before giving advice about quoting people, perhaps you should read the thread again, before you jump in headfirst, you may save yourself some embarrassment.

As for winding my neck in, "never on your nelly", this is an open and free forum, if you don't like it move on dear.

HLM.

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9 hours ago, Tally said:

 

I’m not quite sure what you mean by a sweeping statement. Do you really want me to repeat the things I’ve previously said on here? Well, since you’ve asked what about ’stiffing the staff’ not my words but they have been used by others and I agree. That’s what people do when they don’t pay the tips. I really don’t want to hear the argument that we are paying their wages instead of P&O because I don’t care. It’s what the staff expect and generally it’s what they deserve. There is of course the fact that people who don’t pay tips are being subsidised by those who do. Please don’t argue that isn’t the case because of course they are. If I’m in a cabin the same grade as someone else and I pay the tips and they don’t, my cruise is therefore more expensive than theirs. For just those two reasons people who don’t pay tips should be ashamed. However as I’ve already said I doubt they have any shame. Now I really am finished with these gratuity threads. I think we all know where we stand and as I’ve already said I’ll carry on doing what I consider to be the right thing and others no doubt will do what they want.

So what you're basically saying is that anyone who decides to do different from you should be ashamed of themselves? 🤔

Now let's discuss about subsidising others, the main floor in your post is that you don't know the individual circumstances of everyone onboard, you claim that by paying your tips against those who don't makes your cruise more expensive, yet you haven't got a clue of how much others have paid for their cruise, the fact is that they may well of subsidised you 🤔 Would you agree and would you be ashamed if you found that to be true? I think not.

In the past I've had some very good deals, but I've also been caught cold and payed a significantly more than others, for example my wife and I booked a cruise a while back, then friends decided they wanted to join us a couple of months later, they paid £600 less and got onboard credit, enough to pay their grats, so who subsidised who? need I say more.

I would suggest that in future please don't make assumptions before you have all the facts, I and others pay the fares, what we do beyond that has nothing to do with anyone else.

HLM.

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, HLM said:

So what you're basically saying is that anyone who decides to do different from you should be ashamed of themselves? 🤔

Now let's discuss about subsidising others, the main floor in your post is that you don't know the individual circumstances of everyone onboard, you claim that by paying your tips against those who don't makes your cruise more expensive, yet you haven't got a clue of how much others have paid for their cruise, the fact is that they may well of subsidised you 🤔 Would you agree and would you be ashamed if you found that to be true? I think not.

In the past I've had some very good deals, but I've also been caught cold and payed a significantly more than others, for example my wife and I booked a cruise a while back, then friends decided they wanted to join us a couple of months later, they paid £600 less and got onboard credit, enough to pay their grats, so who subsidised who? need I say more.

I would suggest that in future please don't make assumptions before you have all the facts, I and others pay the fares, what we do beyond that has nothing to do with anyone else.

HLM.

 

 

 

Well to begin I very much doubt anyone subsidises my cruises as we always book a suite. So already we pay more than most wouldn't you say for the same food, service and entertainment. I doubt we've ever had a good deal because we always book directly with P&O. So perhaps you are the one being presumptuous not me. There is of course the possibility that because of fluid pricing someone may pay more than we have for their suite. If we've ever paid less for our suite I certainly wouldn't feel ashamed as it would be out of my control unlike the gratuities.

I'm aware that it's no-ones business if someone pays the gratuities or not and naturally I'd never walk around the ship asking people if they've paid them. However this is a forum where we discuss all matters cruise related and I am simply giving my opinion regarding that. 

So perhaps you should take your own advice and not make assumptions about me in future.

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6 minutes ago, Tally said:

Well to begin I very much doubt anyone subsidises my cruises as we always book a suite. So already we pay more than most wouldn't you say for the same food, service and entertainment. I doubt we've ever had a good deal because we always book directly with P&O. So perhaps you are the one being presumptuous not me. There is of course the possibility that because of fluid pricing someone may pay more than we have for their suite. If we've ever paid less for our suite I certainly wouldn't feel ashamed as it would be out of my control unlike the gratuities.

I'm aware that it's no-ones business if someone pays the gratuities or not and naturally I'd never walk around the ship asking people if they've paid them. However this is a forum where we discuss all matters cruise related and I am simply giving my opinion regarding that. 

So perhaps you should take your own advice and not make assumptions about me in future.

Come on a Tally behave, are you really suggesting that because you've only ever booked a suite no-one can possibly subsidise you? Utter nonsence and slightly snobbish and you know it, fluid pricing affects all cabin grades including suites, actually the higher the cabin grade the better the deals therefore the price gap between full and lower fares can be significantly different, so there is a strong likelihood that someone is subsidising you much more than lower grade cabins, shameful really 🤑

You also say that you have no control over fluid pricing, of course you do, but you decide to only book directly with P&O all the time, try elsewhere and you might be surprised what you can get extra, P&O must love people like you who'll book at any cost and pay the gratuities, which increases their profit margins. 😳

HLM.

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5 minutes ago, HLM said:

Come on a Tally behave, are you really suggesting that because you've only ever booked a suite no-one can possibly subsidise you? Utter nonsence and slightly snobbish and you know it, fluid pricing affects all cabin grades including suites, actually the higher the cabin grade the better the deals therefore the price gap between full and lower fares can be significantly different, so there is a strong likelihood that someone is subsidising you much more than lower grade cabins, shameful really 🤑

You also say that you have no control over fluid pricing, of course you do, but you decide to only book directly with P&O all the time, try elsewhere and you might be surprised what you can get extra, P&O must love people like you who'll book at any cost and pay the gratuities, which increases their profit margins. 😳

HLM.

I'm not quite sure what you mean about higher grade cabins having better deals we paid £18000 for our last cruise on the Oceana the price was originally £14000 but the suite I wanted wasn't available. Fortunately it became available but at the higher price. I didn't hold it against the other suite passengers and I didn't for a minute think they should be ashamed. As I've said fluid pricing is out of our control.I've obviously hit a nerve with the shaming comment because you seem determined to make me ashamed of something. Sorry I have nothing to be ashamed of. I pay the price I'm quoted and I pay the gratuities expected. 

As you say I'm sure P&O love people like us. Am I supposed to be ashamed of that.

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2 hours ago, Tally said:

I'm not quite sure what you mean about higher grade cabins having better deals we paid £18000 for our last cruise on the Oceana the price was originally £14000 but the suite I wanted wasn't available. Fortunately it became available but at the higher price. I didn't hold it against the other suite passengers and I didn't for a minute think they should be ashamed. As I've said fluid pricing is out of our control.I've obviously hit a nerve with the shaming comment because you seem determined to make me ashamed of something. Sorry I have nothing to be ashamed of. I pay the price I'm quoted and I pay the gratuities expected. 

As you say I'm sure P&O love people like us. Am I supposed to be ashamed of that.

I believe the quote goes something like this "there's none so blind as those who will not see".

HLM 👍

 

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I've just booked the most amazing deal with Saga for a Fred Olsen cruise I've been looking at for next year - I thought we'd missed the boat as the prices had gone way beyond what we wanted to pay, but I looked at Saga, because a friend always books with them, and I got a fantastic deal as well as including transfers, all inclusive and tips.    This tips thing really gets out of hand and I am always amazed how many people get their knickers in a twist about paying them.   Whatever you pay for your cruise, the crew don't know.  They still work hard for you and I would have to say, many think they deserve some recognition for that.   Me, I would say that I agree with them - they do.   So if your circumstances change, and you pay a bit more, you choose to do that to get the cruise you want.    The crew, oblivious to that, still do their job (most of them) to the best of their ability.   In my very humble opinion, I couldn't stiff them to save a few bob.   I've had the swings and this time I've been very lucky to get on the roundabout.   Some hard working crew members might be on the receiving end of a bit extra to celebrate my luck - and they will deserve every penny.

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Since I never have cruised with P & O my comments are general.  Firstly,no one subsidizes anyone by paying different fares.  The cruise lines price their cabins to maximize profits.  If they need to fill their ships close to sailing they will reduce prices because having passengers  on board to spend money is more beneficial than sailing with empty cabins.  

Secondly, the comment about gratuities paying the wages is true, but one way or another the passengers pay the wages.  There is no one else to do that.  Either we pay higher prices and have gratuities included or gratuities are separate and, up to now, optional.  I would prefer to have them included so everyone pays their fair share, but I suspect that additional tips would come to be expected especially on ships with a high percentage of US cruisers.

Sheila

 

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2 hours ago, Mayway said:

I've just booked the most amazing deal with Saga for a Fred Olsen cruise I've been looking at for next year - I thought we'd missed the boat as the prices had gone way beyond what we wanted to pay, but I looked at Saga, because a friend always books with them, and I got a fantastic deal as well as including transfers, all inclusive and tips.    This tips thing really gets out of hand and I am always amazed how many people get their knickers in a twist about paying them.   Whatever you pay for your cruise, the crew don't know.  They still work hard for you and I would have to say, many think they deserve some recognition for that.   Me, I would say that I agree with them - they do.   So if your circumstances change, and you pay a bit more, you choose to do that to get the cruise you want.    The crew, oblivious to that, still do their job (most of them) to the best of their ability.   In my very humble opinion, I couldn't stiff them to save a few bob.   I've had the swings and this time I've been very lucky to get on the roundabout.   Some hard working crew members might be on the receiving end of a bit extra to celebrate my luck - and they will deserve every penny.

What a lovely post Mayway and I so agree the crew do work so hard for us, you are right this 'tip thing' does get out of hand .. I am in the camp that doesn't have a problem paying them but I perhaps don't always explain very clearly that I don't actually have a problem with those who choose to take the auto gratuities off and reward those who have served them, I don't profess to see the logic behind it as the tips are pooled anyway but that is by the by .. my problem is with those who say 'why should we subsidize crew wages' and I don't actually disagree with that statement either but you've hit the nail on the head with your 'couldn't 'stiff' the crew' and that is exactly how I feel which is why I am so passionate on this subject and think 'everyone' should pay the tips, it isn't about whether or not the cruise companies should pay a decent wage or not ( we all know they won't be doing that !! ) they choose to use 'cheap labour' and entice them with the expectation of increased earnings because the passenger will reward them .. I don't suppose many who live in the UK would actually be taken in by that but for someone living in a third world country where wages are very low you can see how they would be enticed with 'promises' 

I think like most 'tipping threads' this one has run it's course but no doubt it will rear it's head again in the not too distant future !! 

Have a lovely cruise on FO it sounds a really good deal, never been with them but have only heard good reports. 

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11 hours ago, *Dancing Queen* said:

someone living in a third world country where wages are very low you can see how they would be enticed with 'promises' 

Are you seriously suggesting that most crew onboard are from third world countries? 

What also strikes me about yourself and others is the fact that you are more than aware that these cruiselines are in your own words using "cheap labour" yet by booking cruises you are only encouraging them not to pay a decent wage to their employees.

I would therefore suggest that instead of getting on your high horse and bemoaning those who opt out of the auto grat system, why don't you take some positive action against the cruiselines and boycott them until such a time that they change their wage structures, after all someone who appears to have such a high moral standing surely wouldn't want to be seen to encourage a "sweat shop" organisation would they?

HLM.

 

 

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Bee's in bonnets, high horses and now being seen to be encouraging 'sweat shop' organisations, goodness whatever will you dream up next :unsure: you seem to making this all rather personal HLM so on that note I will bow out gracefully from this thread as I don't think it is in the interest of the forum to continue with what I see you are trying to make into a 'point scoring' competition.

Have a nice day.

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34 minutes ago, *Dancing Queen* said:

Bee's in bonnets, high horses and now being seen to be encouraging 'sweat shop' organisations, goodness whatever will you dream up next :unsure: you seem to making this all rather personal HLM so on that note I will bow out gracefully from this thread as I don't think it is in the interest of the forum to continue with what I see you are trying to make into a 'point scoring' competition.

Have a nice day.

"You seem to be making this all rather personal" that's rich coming from someone who initially advised me to wind my neck in because you didn't share my point of view, pot and kettle comes to mind.

That aside, I think I've made a valid point with regards to "cheap labour" (your words, not mine) so by booking you are encouraging it, but of course you'll never admit it will you?

I will have a nice day, I wish you one too 😉 👍

Bye for now 🤗

HLM.

 

 

 

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Every business in the world will use 'cheap labour' when they can get away with it - including the company who employ me.  As my OH always says when they take the pee, I have nobody to blame but myself for allowing them to get away with it!

Every discussion about tipping is a complete waste of time to every participant IMO - although it's fun sometimes to join in.   We all have our own views and despite any proof to the contrary of our own individual views, we will all continue to do exactly as we do currently because that is what we as individuals choose to do.  There is no right and no wrong - just choice.   I can't object to any perceived 'fairness' because I, like many others, could choose to opt out if I wish.    

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On ‎01‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 4:21 PM, *Dancing Queen* said:

No bee in my bonnet HLM it just becomes tedious when the same subject keeps going around and around, you are of course entitled to do whatever you want to just as I am and no doubt we will. 

Such a shame though that the ones who really miss out are the crew who go out of their way to ensure we have a good time, as I said gratuities should be part of the total cost .. a level playing field for all !! 

I think HLM forgets that the prices we pay today are not a great deal different to 30 years ago.thats down to us the customer.By removing grats the only person that can possibly suffer is the crew member.Well done.

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It appears that this is a subject where there are no definitive answers. Almost every forum about cruising this the Tipping question arises so here is my two penny worth

I do not agree with tipping in advance. To me the tip is a show of gratitude for service over and above the expected and to encourage excellent service in the future.

Why should a surly waiter who dumps your plate in front of you be rewarded the same as the pleasant smiling waiter who is taking a pride in his work?   

Another point just who in their right mind saves thousands of pounds for a touch of luxury holiday then leave a £200 + tip in advance for a service yet to be given?

To my mind tips should be down to the individual and not the company providing the service.

This argument will continue, I believe, even if the company where to provide a breakdown of exactly where those tips are distributed and the criteria necessary for the crew to receive them.

I do not consider tips to be a way of propping up the company’s poor pay (in comparison to U.K. wages)

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