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2 hours ago, sinbad10 said:

When it happened the auto gratuity was not in place the staff relied on tips being given to them in envelopes and with it being a 76nt cruise there were various shorter sectors. The staff were not getting tips that they expected or had been used to getting so there only solution was the walk off the ship en masse in the US. After discussion with bosses this was when auto gratuities was first introduced in the belief that it would increase tips received and nobody or only a small number would remove them.

And what happened to those crew members who walked off the ship? 

They subsequently didn't have their contracts renewed, hence the reluctance of crew nowadays to reveal the real truth about their wage structure. 

HLM.

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Hi  I have always said that tips should be incorporated into the boarding fare.  I, like the rest of us, will not know why P&O has increased the recommended rate but I wouldn't be surprised if it

Here's an idea: why don't cruise lines allow passengers to opt out of the services; they would then not be expected to pay the service charge. A separate area of the galley could be set aside for pas

I'd love a 25% pay rise.

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On 2017-5-10 at 10:34 AM, HLM said:

The stick out point to me Jinky is that RCI appear to be saying they are reliant on their customers to make up their employees wages, surely that's the employers duty not mine or yours.

If they are so concerned they should have a decent wage structure in place, then they wouldn't need to rely on the generosity of it's customers, after all we have already paid a substantial fee to be on their ships in the first place.

HLM.

And you`d pay more if they took up my suggestion of including tips in fares to give all a fare  wage. the reality is we cannot expect to ignore those customs / traditions we don`t like and refuse tips knowing that it means people are paid less well than they should be for me. It`s a moral issue. I agree that in the first instance the employer should pay fully and pass on the appropriate charges to meet those costs. The same applies when going to America which has employment practices based on tipping with people paid less than minimum wage on the assumption that tips make up the complete wage. If we ignore it we are underpaying them and use excuses of blaming employers, that they are paid more than they get back at home, we `ve paid enough. For soe it seems they are happy to dodge the tips completely and allow others to do the moral thing!

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On 2017-4-6 at 8:41 AM, seawitch said:

Many of the staff come from Goa . Check online the average wage , It is £1.50-£2 a Day. A professional accountant architect or similar is paid around £1500 per year.  This probably explains why they are so eager to be away from home for 9 months. What seems very little to us means they and their families can live very well at home. A friend for many years took his wife, 3 children and his parents to a 5* South Pacific resort for Christmas and New Year.They live in a beautiful house with swimming pool, he is paying for university education for his children, his wife has never worked. His job for the last 25 years- cruise ship waiter.

So if they come to Britain we should pay them what they would earn at home too? The fact that they have had training, learned languages and are willing to work away from home for so many months of the year surely takes them out of  the £1.50 - 2 a day bracket given that they are doing their best to give you a good time in the same way that  such staff do when staying at hotels ! 

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I do not think that it is up to passengers to pay staff wages. They sign up knowing what the wage structure is the same as any other employee in any occupation. 

Tips or gratuities are paid for good service in the cruise industry and if they don't provide it then the tips should reflect that or the other way around if service is good. Do shop workers get tips for good service, they probably didn't even get a small bonus. 

Tips have increased far more than wages have gone up in the U.K. And it costs more to live here than in their own countries. If you go on a cruise and service is rubbish then you know what to do, if the staff rebel, as they have done in the past then the employers should dig into their profits and do something about it and not rely on passengers good nature.

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14 hours ago, sinbad10 said:

When it happened the auto gratuity was not in place the staff relied on tips being given to them in envelopes and with it being a 76nt cruise there were various shorter sectors. The staff were not getting tips that they expected or had been used to getting so there only solution was the walk off the ship en masse in the US. After discussion with bosses this was when auto gratuities was first introduced in the belief that it would increase tips received and nobody or only a small number would remove them.

we were cruising on an RCI tip when the auto Grat's payment scheme came in , And asked the Cabin steward did he get all the money   that we payed into the scheme, His reply was yes we do and from his point of view he preferred it that way as he had  not to worry about large amounts off ash to take home,at the end of his contract.

I prefered it as I did not need to take large amounts of cash with me to pat the tips  ,they later brought in the prepayment system,sadly the exchange rates and the raising of amount of tips   means it would now cost just under £300 in tips for a two week cruise a bit stiff by any standards....Davybe

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That's rather high for what they do in my view. The thing is, if they know that they are guaranteed x number of pounds in tips then they won't be as diligent as they would be if being given it in person. If tips are included in the price then the same thing applies plus some would probably expect extra.

it should be up to the individual to decide what they tip, the same as everywhere else, but with the cruise line providing a suggested amount.

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15 hours ago, sinbad10 said:

When it happened the auto gratuity was not in place the staff relied on tips being given to them in envelopes and with it being a 76nt cruise there were various shorter sectors. The staff were not getting tips that they expected or had been used to getting so there only solution was the walk off the ship en masse in the US. After discussion with bosses this was when auto gratuities was first introduced in the belief that it would increase tips received and nobody or only a small number would remove them.

The whole point is that rather than seeing why passengers were leaving ships without giving (not paying) gratuities the shipping companies just tried to place a mandatory charge against each passenger. It looks as if there was little checking of the quality of service provided as the companies, with their heads stuck in the sand, just believe they are providing a great experience. This then leads back to another question, if we are brainwashed to believe we are getting the great experience, and we should tip for something that is over and above great, then there is no need to tip as all that is happening is that our expectations are being met. If we feel that we have not received a great experience and just had a good holiday then there is even more reason not to give any gratuity.

just because staff expect to be tipped is not a good reason to try and enforce it. We, the passenger, should want to tip and not feel obliged to do so. Big difference!

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20 minutes ago, The Pesky Pirate said:

That's rather high for what they do in my view. The thing is, if they know that they are guaranteed x number of pounds in tips then they won't be as diligent as they would be if being given it in person. If tips are included in the price then the same thing applies plus some would probably expect extra.

it should be up to the individual to decide what they tip, the same as everywhere else, but with the cruise line providing a suggested amount.

I do wonder how they arrive at these amounts ,they used  a American firm or outfit called AAA who set the recommended amounts   (Except P&O) .The cruise lines are in danger of loosing customers ,there is a limit to what the public will pay....Davybe

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2 hours ago, jinky said:

So if they come to Britain we should pay them what they would earn at home too? The fact that they have had training, learned languages and are willing to work away from home for so many months of the year surely takes them out of  the £1.50 - 2 a day bracket given that they are doing their best to give you a good time in the same way that  such staff do when staying at hotels ! 

No we shouldn't pay them wages they would get back at home if they lived in Britain because of the standards of living here are so much higher but they aren't living in Britain. They are living on a cruise ship with free uniform, free accommodation, free health care and free food they have no living expenses to pay whatsoever whilst onboard so the money they receive in wages is there to keep with no expenditure.

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I have said many times before would anyone at the end of a 14nt land based holiday in a hotel would a couple put £200-£300 in the tip box on reception for the staff. I very much doubt it so why should cruises be any different a lot of staff in hotels worldwide are living away from home work long hours do just as good a job as cabin stewards and waiters on a cruise ships and are similarly on notoriously poor pay.

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4 hours ago, sinbad10 said:

No we shouldn't pay them wages they would get back at home if they lived in Britain because of the standards of living here are so much higher but they aren't living in Britain. They are living on a cruise ship with free uniform, free accommodation, free health care and free food they have no living expenses to pay whatsoever whilst onboard so the money they receive in wages is there to keep with no expenditure.

And your proof is what exactly.what??

They pay if they wish to have their cabin serviced ? you will see them often buying food and water when they go ashore > Some cruise lines charge them if there uniformes need additional cleaning  ,No free medical treatment unless they are on the ship? Big complaint from crew on P&O was the small amount of food they got ....Davybe

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Not sure about these comments, Davybe! We have seen posts on the forum from pax about the small amount of food they have had on a cruise whilst others are more than satisfied. If the crew conditions were that bad they would not be accepting new contracts after each stint. I have seen crew members return for years. 

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21 hours ago, jinky said:

And you`d pay more if they took up my suggestion of including tips in fares to give all a fare  wage. the reality is we cannot expect to ignore those customs / traditions we don`t like and refuse tips knowing that it means people are paid less well than they should be for me. It`s a moral issue. I agree that in the first instance the employer should pay fully and pass on the appropriate charges to meet those costs. The same applies when going to America which has employment practices based on tipping with people paid less than minimum wage on the assumption that tips make up the complete wage. If we ignore it we are underpaying them and use excuses of blaming employers, that they are paid more than they get back at home, we `ve paid enough. For soe it seems they are happy to dodge the tips completely and allow others to do the moral thing!

When considering this in particular the main issue for me was whether after paying my cruise fare I should be expected to pay extra on top to subsidise the crews wages , nothing to do with tipping in general.

My answer is a resounding NO, it has nothing to with traditions and customs all nationalities have them, are they all adhered to? of course there not, for example traditionally it was a custom to give a personal reward for good service in an envelope to those who served you well on the cruise, we all know what happened, cruiselines decided they would do us 'all a big favour' and make it easier by suggesting a recommended daily rate which they would add to your onboard account, how very helpful.

So with P&O as soon as I arrive for a 7nt cruise I've got £84 on my account for services "above and beyond" I've yet to receive, more on most lines, thanks for that. :) 

As for morals, mine are not in question, it's the employers that should be, simple as that in my opinion.

My final thoughts are that they should go back a few years, let me decide who I reward, If that means paying higher fares then so be it, as long as they never use the word gratuity again it'll be happy day's :D

HLM.

 

 

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I think it's to appease our American cousins who are predisposed to tip anything that moves.  If the tip was included in the fare they would still tip but giving this added gratuity facility it gives them another opportunity to make themselves feel good  - their added tips will then be seen as being 'in addition' to the standard tip and will show them in a good light to their friends and promote their wrong-headed delusions that people love Americans because they are soooooo generous.

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Someone mentioned the delight the cabin staff showed when they tipped directly.

Well just to inform people - any tips received in cash must be declared by the staff member.

Also all staff know who opt out of the automatic tipping scheme. 

Last time we asked our cabin steward what he would prefer and he said it made no difference because of this.

So we stay in the scheme but tip extra in the hope he may get a tiny bit extra because of that!!

 

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16 minutes ago, Lovethe7seas said:

Someone mentioned the delight the cabin staff showed when they tipped directly.

Well just to inform people - any tips received in cash must be declared by the staff member.

Also all staff know who opt out of the automatic tipping scheme. 

Last time we asked our cabin steward what he would prefer and he said it made no difference because of this.

So we stay in the scheme but tip extra in the hope he may get a tiny bit extra because of that!!

 

And there lies the confusion, on a earlier post it is claimed by P&O that individual tips are not pooled, they are kept by the individual receiving them.

As I said earlier "who or what do you believe"?

Individual tipping is my preferred choice nowadays, what they do with it is up to them, not my worry.

HLM.

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1 hour ago, HLM said:

And there lies the confusion, on a earlier post it is claimed by P&O that individual tips are not pooled, they are kept by the individual receiving them.

As I said earlier "who or what do you believe"?

Individual tipping is my preferred choice nowadays, what they do with it is up to them, not my worry.

HLM.

P&O did say on their Facebook page a while ago that butler's are included in the scheme so even if you don't stay in a suite part of your Service Reward Scheme which is left on goes to them and they also said that any money given to staff whether you have removed auto gratuities or not and give in cash they are allowed to keep. Not saying that this is wrong but causes confusion because those that get handed money and keep it will also be part of the Service Reward Scheme so in effect are being rewarded twice where some will only get it once. The problem is nobody knows for definite how the system is managed only P&O and they seem to give very differing responses causing the confusion.

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On 20/03/2015 at 4:50 PM, harley1 said:

to be totally honest my last experince of p&o staff were that they were rude, ignorant and down right lazy! the 'thats not my job attitude' shame really as all the other sailings i have been on with P&O have been spot on! i hope it was just a blip as if they are asking for £5 pppd i think this is far too much for the service i last recieved which was basically non existant!

This one of the reasons that I stopped sailing with P & O. also they almost ignore the disabled.  I now sail primarily with Fred Olsen. Their staff are helpful considerate and go out of their way to help the disabled. At £4 a day (£2 for cabin steward and assistant and £2 for table waiter and assistant) this is very reasonable and many also deserve a little extra. 

Edited by MB alone
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Gratuities are paid for good service. Therefore it is wrong to add to your account. The reason the service has gone down is because they know they will get paid regardless of their attitude and lack of service. We remove our gratuities from our account on our first few days on cruise and pay well form good service, but it's OUR choice. On our last cruise we had the worst cabin steward you can imagine. Dirty carpet , no toilet rolls , no shower soap. We complained and it did no good, so again complained spoke to house keeping manager. Even worse was to come, excrement on carpet rolled into ball. For the first time in 30 years of cruising we did not tip cabin steward.

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3 hours ago, Lovethe7seas said:

Someone mentioned the delight the cabin staff showed when they tipped directly.

Well just to inform people - any tips received in cash must be declared by the staff member.

Also all staff know who opt out of the automatic tipping scheme. 

Last time we asked our cabin steward what he would prefer and he said it made no difference because of this.

So we stay in the scheme but tip extra in the hope he may get a tiny bit extra because of that!!

 

So you are happy being charged, in advance, for services above and beyond those expected? If you are then why give more on top? Do you pay your window cleaner, his bill, and then say "here is a tip as the windows look as clean as I expect?" - I'm sure you do not.

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On 5/12/2017 at 7:41 PM, Captain Kidd II said:

Not sure about these comments, Davybe! We have seen posts on the forum from pax about the small amount of food they have had on a cruise whilst others are more than satisfied. If the crew conditions were that bad they would not be accepting new contracts after each stint. I have seen crew members return for years. 

Which bit are you not sure about.I was just pointing out they do not get everything for free .

Better Than they get at home does not make it a good job, But your right many crew do return the record I heard was one chap who had clocked up 30 years with the same cruise line....Davybe 

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1 hour ago, [email protected] said:

Gratuities are paid for good service. Therefore it is wrong to add to your account. The reason the service has gone down is because they know they will get paid regardless of their attitude and lack of service. We remove our gratuities from our account on our first few days on cruise and pay well form good service, but it's OUR choice. On our last cruise we had the worst cabin steward you can imagine. Dirty carpet , no toilet rolls , no shower soap. We complained and it did no good, so again complained spoke to house keeping manager. Even worse was to come, excrement on carpet rolled into ball. For the first time in 30 years of cruising we did not tip cabin steward.

I think I would have demanded compensation for that sort of service ? Care to mane and shame...Davybe 

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On 20/03/2015 at 10:54 AM, Oldworldtraveller said:

P&O from May this year increase their gratuities to £5 per day per person, an increase of over 25%. Is this justified? If it is true that crew rely on the gratuities to make up their wages then they should be smiling all the way to the bank with that sort of increase. What do you think?

I was informed that all gratuities are 100% allocated to all crew members   However as crew members include the captain down I don't agree with this as they get well paid anyway. Unless I have this wrong?? 

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