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Hi  I have always said that tips should be incorporated into the boarding fare.  I, like the rest of us, will not know why P&O has increased the recommended rate but I wouldn't be surprised if it

Here's an idea: why don't cruise lines allow passengers to opt out of the services; they would then not be expected to pay the service charge. A separate area of the galley could be set aside for pas

I'd love a 25% pay rise.

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43 minutes ago, afcandrew said:

I think P&O have stated that the 'service charge' is distributed between your Cabin Attendant, Waiter, Assistant Waiter and Head Waiter.

If I add Butler to the list then all I ask is why include the Head Waiter who always seems to be a waste of space and does very little and Butlers when I have only every occupied either a balcony or outside cabin for which Butlers have nothing to do with? Happy to tip those who provide a service to me but do not want to to subsidise others. I am sure Head Waiters are paid more, as they have a higher rank, so do not need a tip.

Perhaps we should soon consider tipping the Captain for the service she/he provides!

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4 minutes ago, Davybe said:

This may upset you but from the web site ??

Unlike most cruise lines, we don’t think that tips and service charges should cost extra, so we’ve included them in the price. That means you’re not expected to tip any of our crew-unless, of course, you want to.Plus onboard spend is in £'s so there is no need to worry about exchange rates while onboard, saving your holiday currency for when you get off the ship.

Still found P&O cheaper than Thompson even paying the grats ...Davybe

Not quite sure what you're getting at Davybe but I'll try and guess.

In my case Tui were considerably cheaper than P&O when all things considered, for example all inclusive drinks, no gratuities etc, it worked out at around £75pppn.

With regards to grats simply not having them added to my account with the assumption that I'd be paying them was a plus, and not having the indignity of to queue up to have them removed was also favourable with Tui.

I also found Tui crew were much more attentive than other lines, is that because they are paid a decent wage, who knows?

HLM.

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1 hour ago, sinbad10 said:

The following is from P&Os website with reference to who gets a share from Service Reward Scheme- "All tips are distributed fairly among the cabin stewards, butlers, and restaurant and buffet staff".

What about those who score below the 100% benchmark?

HLM.

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1 hour ago, sinbad10 said:

The following is from P&Os website with reference to who gets a share from Service Reward Scheme- "All tips are distributed fairly among the cabin stewards, butlers, and restaurant and buffet staff".

Thanks for finding this Sinbad.  I think I will tip personally in future as I don't want my tips going to a Butler or Head Waiter.  I don't use the buffet that much but would be happy to drop something in to the tin that they normally have there.  Of course, it may be that only tips from suites with Butlers are divided among the Butlers but there is no way of knowing that.

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58 minutes ago, afcandrew said:

I think crew members get a bonus based on their ratings from the cruise questionnaires.  If they score low, they don't get a bonus.

Therefore they are not fairly distributed, hence my reasoning for paying a gratuity to those who serve me well personally. 

Like you I don't feel the need to reward a butler who's not served me throughout my cruise.

HLM.

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16 hours ago, sinbad10 said:

The following is from P&Os website with reference to who gets a share from Service Reward Scheme- "All tips are distributed fairly among the cabin stewards, butlers, and restaurant and buffet staff".

Some People will never believe what P&O or any other cruise line  have to say about how the grats are distributed,they believe what suit's there wallets ....Davybe 

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49 minutes ago, Davybe said:

Some People will never believe what P&O or any other cruise line  have to say about how the grats are distributed,they believe what suit's there wallets ....Davybe 

And then there's those who'll pay regardless of who's profiting, over the past couple of years or so P&O have almost doubled their gratuity payments, I don't for one minute believe this has all gone to the crew.

Me personally have read enough to make me have very serious doubts as to where my gratuities are actually going and who too, so as the money in my "wallet" is mine, I have the choice as to who receives it.

I now choose to pay individually, rather than give it directly to a large corporation who I seriously doubt distributes it fairly, yes there are those who suggest personal gratuities have to be pooled, but that's up to the individual, I'm happy in the knowledge that I've rewarded those who served me personally.

What gets up my nose are those who suggest people are being untruthful or tight if they decide to remove gratuities for whatever reason.

HLM.

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On 2015-5-4 at 8:21 PM, RayO said:

Viscount,

 

I believe your post is contradictory: on the one hand you wish to tip those that serve you but by definition those behind the scenes cannot be tipped in that first scenario.

 

Best leave the auto tipping on IMHO so those behind the scenes get their share and tip extra for those that you deem worthy.

 

RayO

On a recent RCI I was angered at the attitude of a line of cruisers, mainly British I am ashamed to say, lining up as they BOARDED a cruise to have tips removed and loudly proclaiming what they were doing and encouraging others to do the same. On leaving the ship I saw another couple asking  for removal of tips being embarrassed when asked if there was a reason for this decision as they may need to take action. They responded " well our room attendant cleaned outr room well each day and did all we asked but he didn`t always say Good Morning to us as we didn`t` see  him every day" !!! Grasping at straws. I decided to write on my return to RCI suggesting they made the gratuities part of the fare and asking where tips went. I was amazed to get a call from them in Florida one Sunday afternoon to reply. They advised that all tips (without any RCI deductions)  were divided between cabin attendants and dining staff. They did not go to officers / staff employed backstage who were on a different salary scale. All gratuities from bar drinks were shared between bar staff so they were also on a different salary scale to allow for tips to make up wages. I suggested that given the attitude of a large number of Brits I had come across they would thus lose out and must be depending on the generosity of others that pay the tips and more to make up wages and was that the reason gratuities had gone up. She said she was not allowed to comment officially but it was obvious what the effect of non-tippers would be and thanked me for my generosity. I said that all this would be saved if they included tips in the fare and paid acceptable, consistent wages but she declared RCI had no change of policy in development at this stage.

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Exactly how it should be.  If P&O came out and stated categorically that all your tips go to your cabin attendant and table waiters, that would be fine with most people.  Those behind the scenes, who do not receive tips from pax should indeed be on a different wage structure to take account of this.  That may be the case on P&O as well but it does not seem possible to get a definitive answer.

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6 minutes ago, jinky said:

On a recent RCI I was angered at the attitude of a line of cruisers, mainly British I am ashamed to say, lining up as they BOARDED a cruise to have tips removed and loudly proclaiming what they were doing and encouraging others to do the same. On leaving the ship I saw another couple asking  for removal of tips being embarrassed when asked if there was a reason for this decision as they may need to take action. They responded " well our room attendant cleaned outr room well each day and did all we asked but he didn`t always say Good Morning to us as we didn`t` see  him every day" !!! Grasping at straws. I decided to write on my return to RCI suggesting they made the gratuities part of the fare and asking where tips went. I was amazed to get a call from them in Florida one Sunday afternoon to reply. They advised that all tips (without any RCI deductions)  were divided between cabin attendants and dining staff. They did not go to officers / staff employed backstage who were on a different salary scale. All gratuities from bar drinks were shared between bar staff so they were also on a different salary scale to allow for tips to make up wages. I suggested that given the attitude of a large number of Brits I had come across they would thus lose out and must be depending on the generosity of others that pay the tips and more to make up wages and was that the reason gratuities had gone up. She said she was not allowed to comment officially but it was obvious what the effect of non-tippers would be and thanked me for my generosity. I said that all this would be saved if they included tips in the fare and paid acceptable, consistent wages but she declared RCI had no change of policy in development at this stage.

The stick out point to me Jinky is that RCI appear to be saying they are reliant on their customers to make up their employees wages, surely that's the employers duty not mine or yours.

If they are so concerned they should have a decent wage structure in place, then they wouldn't need to rely on the generosity of it's customers, after all we have already paid a substantial fee to be on their ships in the first place.

HLM.

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But that is the American culture HLM.  Waiting staff and Bartenders in the USA have notoriously low wages which is why Americans routinely and happily tip up to 20% in restaurants and a dollar or so a time to a Bartender.  I am certainly not saying it is right but it is their way of doing things.

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3 hours ago, Davybe said:

Some People will never believe what P&O or any other cruise line  have to say about how the grats are distributed,they believe what suit's there wallets ....Davybe 

You cannot blame them P&O have not helped by changing the name repeatedly over last few years and also have never given a straight answer on their Facebook page and if anything muddied the waters.

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It is alleged that the gratuities pay the wages of the staff that come under the jurisdiction of the Hotel Director. Looking at P&O as an example they have increased their gratuities from £3.10 in April 2012 to £6.00 now, 2017. Thats an increase of 93% or nearly 20% per annum.  Have the staff received a 93% pay rise over that period!! Somehow I think the answer if you asked them would be a resounding NO. So do I believe the cruise lines, sorry until they come out and give answers to the many questions asked instead of avoiding the question or at best giving a politicians answer, the answer is again a resounding NO.

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4 hours ago, HLM said:

The stick out point to me Jinky is that RCI appear to be saying they are reliant on their customers to make up their employees wages, surely that's the employers duty not mine or yours.

If they are so concerned they should have a decent wage structure in place, then they wouldn't need to rely on the generosity of it's customers, after all we have already paid a substantial fee to be on their ships in the first place.

HLM.

Of course they are reliant on customers to pay wages. Who else is going to do it?  One way or another customers pay wages, either optionally by gratuities or they are forced to pay by way of higher fares.  The cost may be slightly less if it is included because that way everyone has to pay, but I have a suspicion that before long additional tips would be expected, especially when a lot of Americans were on board.

Sheila

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There has always been the rumour that staff have a "guaranteed minimum wage" as part of their contract so if the tips do not reach this amount then the shortfall is made p by the cruise line that is why it is in the cruise lines interest to get you to pay tips so that they do not have to make up this shortfall therefore more profit.

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7 hours ago, smtcan said:

Of course they are reliant on customers to pay wages. Who else is going to do it?  One way or another customers pay wages, either optionally by gratuities or they are forced to pay by way of higher fares.  The cost may be slightly less if it is included because that way everyone has to pay, but I have a suspicion that before long additional tips would be expected, especially when a lot of Americans were on board.

Sheila

"Who else is going to do it" pretty straight forward the employer, simple as that.

No one should ever be reliant on a descretionary gratuity, if they do they are naive.

HLM.

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12 hours ago, afcandrew said:

But that is the American culture HLM.  Waiting staff and Bartenders in the USA have notoriously low wages which is why Americans routinely and happily tip up to 20% in restaurants and a dollar or so a time to a Bartender.  I am certainly not saying it is right but it is their way of doing things.

Yes I agree it is the American culture, but I'm afraid it's not mine.

I generally wouldn't even consider a 20% tip in a restaurant here so I certainly won't do it on a cruise ship.

HLM.

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5 hours ago, smtcan said:

But where do the employers get the money from - the customer one way or another.

Yes of course the customer pays but that's out of the initial cruise fare, it should not be from additional discretionary gratuities as they seem to be doing, what happens when there is a consistent shortfall, I for one don't for a minute believe the cruiseline make them up.

Like I said earlier to make the assumption that customers will pay gratuities is naive, and this actually makes me more convinced to remove them.

HLM.

 

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5 hours ago, HLM said:

Yes of course the customer pays but that's out of the initial cruise fare, it should not be from additional discretionary gratuities as they seem to be doing, what happens when there is a consistent shortfall, I for one don't for a minute believe the cruiseline make them up.

Like I said earlier to make the assumption that customers will pay gratuities is naive, and this actually makes me more convinced to remove them.

HLM.

 

I am led to believe that after the mass walkout of staff on Arcadia on its Southampton-Alaska cruise due to staff not being happy with tips received and low pay that P&O agreed to bring in the auto gratuity, which they did, and they also agree that if with the auto gratuity and other tips if they did not meet an agreed level the short fall would be made up by P&O and I believe that this still exists in their contracts.

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1 hour ago, sinbad10 said:

I am led to believe that after the mass walkout of staff on Arcadia on its Southampton-Alaska cruise due to staff not being happy with tips received and low pay that P&O agreed to bring in the auto gratuity, which they did, and they also agree that if with the auto gratuity and other tips if they did not meet an agreed level the short fall would be made up by P&O and I believe that this still exists in their contracts.

Are we sure the staff did not walk out due to low pay and not receiving the volume of tips they anticipated? So P&O did nothing about the low pay and just put more emphasis on tips which, if the staff had achieved giving an exceptional service they would have received anyway. Just pushing up the auto grat fee is not the answer. Likewise, if the crew do not accept the remuneration package on offer they shoukd not sign their contacts which would lead to P&O increasing pay for business continuity.

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5 hours ago, Captain Kidd II said:

Are we sure the staff did not walk out due to low pay and not receiving the volume of tips they anticipated? So P&O did nothing about the low pay and just put more emphasis on tips which, if the staff had achieved giving an exceptional service they would have received anyway. Just pushing up the auto grat fee is not the answer. Likewise, if the crew do not accept the remuneration package on offer they shoukd not sign their contacts which would lead to P&O increasing pay for business continuity.

When it happened the auto gratuity was not in place the staff relied on tips being given to them in envelopes and with it being a 76nt cruise there were various shorter sectors. The staff were not getting tips that they expected or had been used to getting so there only solution was the walk off the ship en masse in the US. After discussion with bosses this was when auto gratuities was first introduced in the belief that it would increase tips received and nobody or only a small number would remove them.

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